S2 Ep2: Sex Toys for Men with Jamie Finch

Damian welcomes Jamie Finch from the podcast' Let's Talk About Sex, Jamie'.  This episode is a frank, open chat which challenges many people's perceptions of the use of sex toys for men.

They discuss:

• sex education
• sex addiction
• sex toys and disability
• the progress of sex toys and Virtual Reality and 
• the difference in perception of sex toys between all genders.

Transcript

Audio recording: 0:09

Welcome to Enhance the UK's Undressing Disability podcast where we strip back all things taboo on sex and disability.

Damian Weatherald: 0:24

Hello, I'm your host Damian, and today we are talking to Jamie Finch, who is the host of the amazing podcast, Let's talk about sex, Jamie. So straight in. Hello, Jamie.

Jamie Finch: 0:35

Hi, you alright? Really excited for this.

Damian Weatherald: 0:40

The first thing we've got to do is, please can you audio describe yourself?

Jamie Finch: 0:44

Audio describe myself. So I've never been asked to do this before. So you might have to tell me if there's bits that I miss out. But I am a 30 year old Cis straight white guy. Another one. I'm pretty pasty right now. We're going from summer into winter. So I'm very happy to have pasty skin. And now I look normal, because it's going to be cold. And yeah, far too long hair because I'm still blaming the pandemic. Even though you've been able to get your haircut for the last like six months. I'm still blaming the pandemic on my hair being this long.

Damian Weatherald: 1:17

No, I think you can get away with rocking the long locks.

Jamie Finch: 1:20

Okay, Cool. I'll take that. Thank you. You just bought me another three months of not getting my haircut.

Damian Weatherald: 1:25

Well definitely take that. So I think the best way to start is, I absolutely adore your podcast, I think I need to find out why you started doing it. What got you involved in talking about sex?

Unknown: 1:38

So I started thinking about this, four or five years ago. I've only been releasing episodes of the podcast for coming up to two years now. But I've been collecting them for way longer than that. I met some people and one of my favourite things to talk about was sex. And I felt like I was learning loads by talking to other people about their sex lives. And I've always been pretty vanilla. Like I still am, not big in the kink world. Like you know, my tastes are pretty middle of road, I'd say. I say Madagascan vanilla, like just slightly above vanilla, you know. And I always felt like I was learning loads by talking to people about their experiences. And it was just my favourite thing to do. So I did the classic thing that every millennial does, which is you know, oh my god, I should start a podcast! And yeah, did that, started collecting stories. And since then, it's kind of transformed a bit. The early days was very much me just kind of talking to you about their funny hookup stories and weird, gross things that they've done and laughing about it. And then I kind of realised that sexual health is so intrinsically linked to mental health, and all kinds of things that it's really gone into that direction now. Like I talk to all kinds people from all over the world, like all over the spectrum. It's amazing. I'm really learning a lot about it. And yeah, I guess the plan was always to come from a place of naivety and just wanting to learn more. Because I felt like when I first wanted to make the podcast, I was like, Oh, I don't need to do that. There are other sex podcasts out there. There's loads of sex podcasts, I should go listen to those. The only ones that I heard that were hosted by guys were always kind of sleazy. Or they were interviewing porn stars and like being quite flirty with them. And it just felt like, er this isn't the kind of vibe I want to start with. So yeah, I like coming at it from a 'I'm stupid. Tell me about things' angle. And I get to learn things. And that's really fun. I get to talk to amazing people like yourself.

Damian Weatherald: 3:29

You can't beat that everyday is a school, you've got to learn. And I think listening to other people is probably one of the best ways of doing this. And like you said, some of the podcasts out there, especially the ones that are talking about porn stars more and things like that they do come across as quite intimidating. And it can put people off and I think different generations look at things in different ways and I think now, this is something we need to look at for younger people as well. Like, I don't know what your sex education was, mine was terrible, non existent. Especially as a disabled person.

Jamie Finch: 4:05

Right. So were you disabled when you were having sex education as well?

Damian Weatherald: 4:09

Yeah.

Jamie Finch: 4:10

Right. Okay. Wow. Yeah. So I've been complaining about my sex education recently, actually, but you've probably got way more complaints than I do. Because, like I said at the start, I'm still a Cis white straight male, so I've got it pretty good, you know? So, that's really interesting.

Damian Weatherald: 4:25

Yeah, for me, one bit of sex education we got was, how to a put a condom on a plastic supposed penis - didn't look anything like it, and that was it. We didn't get anything else apart from odd bits in science.

Jamie Finch: 4:40

Yeah it was all very productive. It was like here's how babies are made. Here's how you avoid babies and how you avoid STIs. That's basically it, nothing about pleasure.

Damian Weatherald: 4:49

Which still you can't do now. You can't talk about pleasure. Things that I've talked about before is that I have just recently qualified as a sex educator.

Jamie Finch: 5:01

Congratulations.

Damian Weatherald: 5:02

Thank you. Which was so interesting doing the course. But when you do it, you're told you cannot talk about pleasure. A really weird thing. Yeah.

Jamie Finch: 5:11

No way. That's so interesting. So what are you talking about then? sex educator is someone that talks about production?

Damian Weatherald: 5:17

You can talk about like contraceptivcaes, HIV, you can tell them what all the parts are. But you can't actually tell them what the clitoris is for, for example. You can tell them where it is but you can't tell them where it's for. Because you can't be seen to be encouraging younger people to learn about pleasure and having sex.

Jamie Finch: 5:40

So I understand from that perspective, yeah. You don't want kids to find out that sex is great, when they're not quite ready to have it, right. So I get that. I totally think that sex education should start from a place of safety and health. And here's how you do it properly. And, here's how to not get pregnant and stuff like that. But not talking about pleasure at all just means that we're pushing all these people out into the world who have no idea what they're doing. We all learn from doing, or lack of doing. Or worse, we learn through porn, and don't get me wrong, I like porn, big porn fan. I think a lot of cool, good things can be learned from porn. But there's also a lot of bad things going on for porn. If kids have screens in front of them way earlier than we did, right, so from whatever age they have access to porn when their parents aren't watching, you know, they're going to be learning all kinds of hardcore things by watching that.

Damian Weatherald: 6:41

They're going straight to the extreme. That's the big problem.

Jamie Finch: 6:43

Exactly. We had to work up, we had to find a porn mag in a forest. And look at one half of a boob on the page that was left and work our way up to porn, you know, proper porn.

Damian Weatherald: 6:53

Yeah. And now they just have that instant access to it. And for all the safeguarding with apps and things like that, they are still going to find a way around it. But I think that can lead into one other question, because, for me, you've got to start an early age educating, especially the young men about trying to educate them about respect, consent, things like that. But then, I've heard you talk so many times about the stigma of male sex toys, and masturbation and things like that, where for years, because of Sex in the City and things like that, it's been promoted for women everywhere you want. You know, people like to put that masturbation is great, buy them a rabbit. That sort of thing. But for men there is such a stigma of using sex toys.

Jamie Finch: 7:39

Yeah. 100%. When you and I were growing up, Ann Summers parties were a thing, right. And it was where all the girls, like your Mum and your Aunt and girl mates and your sisters, whatever, would get together and have a giggle, and they'd all get a bit drunk and excited over these toys and stuff. How amazing is that now? It was awkward as hell when we were kids and thinking about'oh, god, my mum's thinking about buying a sex toy'. But like, how awesome is that? It's a space where women can come together and I work with people that used to give these parties as well. And they would have the option of a male instructor or a female instructor would show up and show you all the toys and then they buy stuff. That's awesome. Imagine if we had something like that for guys. I think we should be doing something like that. I'm definitely not allowed to talk about I said it was a secret to start, but I'm going to anyway, I'm looking at bringing out a sex toy. I'm currently designing a sex toy and hoping it will see the light of day one day. But that sex toy is something that I think should be every every penis owner's first sex toy. And something that happens, you get it when you're like 18, 19, 20, around the same age where vulva owners are getting their first bullet. My first girlfriend when I was 15, she had a rabbit, might be a bit extreme. But she had a rabbit when she was a teenager. And yeah, I just think that guys need that. Because we're just going with dry, strong grip hands, you know, our entire lives and training ourselves - this is how orgasms work. And then we wonder why we have premature or delayed ejaculation in our late 20s. So yeah, I think that the stigma around male sex toys is definitely something to be addressed. But I think it should also be addressed earlier. I think younger men should be looking at Toys and you know, exploring themselves.

Damian Weatherald: 9:20

I completely agree. And I've had that conversation so many times, especially in my years working in the sex toy industry, I've had these conversations. But it's seen as such a taboo, talking like in that sense, because of age, but I think we do need to address that the best thing in some ways is for someone to explore themselves before each other. And I think you said bring in sex toys into that is probably one of the best ways. You don't even have to go for something extreme. We'll talk about more product shortly. But there's even something as simple as a Tenga egg or something like that, it's so good for someone to start with.

Jamie Finch: 9:59

Yeah, I've got I've got a dozen Tenga eggs over here. I should have them within arm's reach, my bad. But yeah, they're right there. Yeah, I'm a big fan of those.

Damian Weatherald: 10:08

I always thought I was the only person who always had sex toys on the desk.

Jamie Finch: 10:11

Oh they're everywhere! Everywhere. You've caught me on a bad day. Normally, they're within arm's reach. But I've got seven in my room right now. Yeah, there you go. See? You just reach over there and there's one there.

Damian Weatherald: 10:20

That's me showing a sex toy to Jamie, because they're always there. I think it doesn't have to be anything extreme. And I think if we can bring this into the conversations with young men, I think it can only be a good thing.

Jamie Finch: 10:36

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I think the fact that, without naming brands, when you think of male sex toy, there are certain brands and certain images that come to mind, right? They're quite extreme. They're quite big, they're quite bulky. They're basically vulvas on sticks, which I think are great. Like, cool, have fun with those. But you know, that's where we're thinking and also, just price range wise, they're mid to high range. But when you think of female sex toys, you can think of bullets and you can think womaniser, like, sort of mid to lower range. You know, I just think there needs to be a lower range male sex toy, that isn't a butt plug, or a prostate massager, which I think are also great, I've got some of those. But I think it's not a starter sex toy is it? If you're talking to young men, you want them to explore themselves and own their sexuality a bit, then they need to have a starter sex toy, you know? So yeah, the spoilers what I'm trying to bring out next year.

Damian Weatherald: 11:33

I can't wait to see what you'll bring out. And you know, I expect to be one of the first people to see one of these. But like you said, I think the cheaper end, usually for male toys are disposable as well. One use and throw in the bin. Which obviously isn't good for the environment and we've also got to look at things like that nowadays. But like you said, the ones that do look just look like a vulva on a stick, I think can be intimidating for men as well. I have met many male friends who I've said to before about using sex toys, and they will not entertain it. They just think it's creepy. Or they find it wrong. And I don't know why they'll buy toys for their partners, but they won't buy anything for themselves.

Jamie Finch: 12:20

Yeah, definitely. I think a big part of that is again, not slating any of these toys, but when you think about sex toys you think of vulva stick, you think of blow up sex dolls. You think of blow up sheep, like these joke presents that you get for like stag dos and stuff, which are hilarious and I like that but that's why there's a stigma because you don't just think, oh, there's just this standard sex toy that I use, you know, you will never go down the pub and be like, I'll just use this little 10 pound thing. And yeah, that's why I've got a bunch of Tenga eggs behind me because I messaged the Tenga guys that I work with, and said, I want to give these to people and just to see their reaction. I just want to see what their immediate reaction is. I want to give them an egg to someone who's never even thought about male sex toys and see what they say and every single time, I've given out four already, I've got another 12 to give out - every single time they go is that supposed to go my arse? And it just shows that's the stigma, and we don't need to go into that like the whole arse play thing with straight guys but yeah, so that's the thing. This is the lowest entry level sex toy and they are scared of it because it looks like an egg. And it looks like it goes up your arse.

Damian Weatherald: 13:31

I think it's something that can definitely be worked on. Like you said, I think a lot of men think as soon as you mention the word sex toys they're thinking of bum play and things like that. And that again, frightens them, they're not willing to have that. Again, though, this goes back to conversations that we can have at a younger age, you know, it's not wrong to try prostate play or anything like that. You're just exploring, you might like it you might not, if you don't try you don't know.

Jamie Finch: 14:00

Yeah, exactly. Maybe this is me being naive, but I don't really see the trouble with, Yes, I understand 14, 15, 16 year olds you need to tell them about you know, the reproductive system and all that stuff. 16 to 18 they're having sex most most 16 -18 year olds are having sex so why not talk to them about pleasure and you know, different tastes and say here's five things that you can do in sex and you might only like two of them but you know, try them safely in a nice place, a safe place with a safe partner that you care about and find out what you like. There's just giving them this idea of discovery and you know, learning themselves and toys can be a big part of that.

Damian Weatherald: 14:37

Definitely you're definitely preaching to the converted with that one. It's conversations I have so often and with other sex educators and with, like sex education, facilitators, at the end of the day our kids get access to social media early now. So they can look for that sort of thing anyway.

Jamie Finch: 15:01

So they're gonna find it.

Damian Weatherald: 15:03

Yeah. So have it in a safe environment. Have it with people who've been DBS checked, things like that. And then you know, it's safe.

Jamie Finch: 15:12

Yeah completely. My dad did something really good with this actually, we didn't really have the birds and bees chat, but I would have been 14, 15, he was talking about using condoms and stuff like that. And he said something that was basically like, as long as you're doing it in the house, I don't care what you do, just do it in the house. You know, he knew my girlfriend at the time. And it was him basically saying experiment, try things, but do it in the house. Don't sneak away somewhere, go somewhere dangerous, and you know, hide it, you know, just do it, close the door. And I think that's really cool. I don't think he meant go and explore your sexuality. But that's what happened, you know? So that's really important. If we can tell young adults this stuff in a safe place, that's great. There's only gonna be good right? Like you say, they're going to find this stuff. They're going to experiment themselves, they're going to go explore themselves. So why don't we give them a bit of guidance, you know?

Damian Weatherald: 16:05

Yeah. And I think we'll come back to the sex toy shortly, but the lack of education, do you think that had any bearing - because one thing you were openingly talking about is being a sex addict. So do you think that had any bearing on that? Or is that just something natural?

Jamie Finch: 16:20

Natural! natural born sex addict?! I think that my education didn't have much on it, I think, because my education was so lacking. It was just here's how to not get HIV,

Damian Weatherald: 16:26

If you don't mind me asking how long a off you go. That was basically it. I think it was more of a societal thing that led me down the sex addiction route. So yeah, I think the whole putting value on sex and telling little boys the way for you to achieve value is to get girls interested in you. My dad was big on that, bless him. My dad was amazing. But yeah, he definitely put a lot of value on chasing girls and getting girls to like you and getting laid. He would always ask me how many girls I'd had sex with, he'll still ask me now. And he'd always compare it to him, his number and all this stuff. And he meant it in a nice, playful way. But you know, those things chip away. So I think it was it was more of a societal thing. I put a lot of value on it. And I ended up getting a lot of my own validation from it. If anyone does listen to the podcast, t ere's there's many differe t reasons why you might have an unhealthy relationship with se or love or affection or relatio ships. Mine was purely down to validation. So I feel like I' worth something when someone inds me physically attractive So, what I had to work on was b sically making that not the onl way I felt good about myself. t's okay to feel good about ourself because that's cool, ri ht? That's part of hookin up, that's fine. But for me it was the only way. So I w s like, 'I'm sad, if I go get aid, I won't be sad anymore'. So yeah, I've had to work on that. And it's been a journey. journey has that been for you? Where's it gone to? Have you had to seek therapy?

Jamie Finch: 18:03

Yeah. So I started about four years ago, maybe three years ago, I dunno. People will be lining up with the time the podcast started. They were unrelated, I swear. Basically Long story short, I'd always been a bit of a cheat. My relationships had overlaps all the time. I wasn't very good at monogamy. And I thought, well, it's fine, one day, I'll meet the the right girl, and I'll just snap into monogamy, it'll be fine. And then I met a girl who I was madly in love with, from the day I met her. And I was like, Oh, this is that girl. This is where it all clicks into place. And my brain was still wandering and thinking about having sex with other girls. I was like, hello, this wasn't part of the deal. We were supposed to switch into monogamy now! So I went and got counselling to make myself monogamous, which isn't a thing, by the way. But yes, I went to counselling, I was like, I'm really in love with this girl. And I want to just be with her and only her. But I keep wanting to sleep with others. And I feel like I don't want to sign up to a life of only being with one girl forever. And it basically came down to, we can't make people monogamous. But maybe we should question why you're pursuing sex so much. And then that was like, oh, because I hate myself, like really hate myself. And sex is the only thing that makes me feel really good about it. At the time, all I had was sex and music. I've been in a band for 10 years, and back then it was more of a full time thing. So those were the only two things I had. And music, as anyone knows, is very fickle. You're really successful, or you're failing. It's like one or two. So sex was like a nice constant for me. I'll always feel good. While music is going bad. I'll just get laid and I'll feel better about that. So that was a few years ago, I think three, maybe four years ago. I should probably figure that out. So I've been classing myself as a recovering sex addict since then. And basically, it's not like alcohol addiction or drug addiction, where you're slowly working towards a day where you never do those things, again, with sex addiction it's not actually clinically an addiction, it's actually a compulsive sexual behaviour disorder. So you have to get it down to a level where you have a healthy relationship with sex, you don't feel compelled to have sex. So I did that and did really well. I had my first relapse this year, which for me, manifested as yet again, pursuing it for the wrong reasons. And messaging people that I didn't necessarily like, that weren't necessarily very nice to me. And yeah, that was quite a recent discovery, actually, that I had relapsed. So I'm now working on that. So I'd say All in all, the journey has been three to four years.

Damian Weatherald: 20:49

Well, sex addiction is something you hear about, but you don't hear people really opening up. You see about people, because it was in the papers because Tiger Woods said about it, and things like that. We don't hear that honesty about it so much, definitely not for men. Thank you for being so open about that because I think we get so many questions to the Love Lounge about different things to do with sex and such. And I think it's good to know that there is people if we get questions about sex addiction, there's people out there who we can say, right, listen to this, or put them in touch with them to have those open conversations about it. Because we can't be experts on everything. So I think it's good to have these open conversations, so we can learn from these experiences, so we can then realise what's going on with ourselves as well.

Jamie Finch: 21:40

Yeah, definitely. Thank you so much. I appreciate that, and that people are listening, to be honest, because I remember I was putting the podcast out and I had no intention of talking about it. And then we are weeks away from putting out the first episode and my friends said, so you're not mentioning the sex addiction? I was like, 'no, I don't want to' and they said,'that's really important! - you're doing a sex podcast, you should talk about it!' So I didn't want to, but that's by far the best received stuff I ever do is when I talk about that stuff. And I get asked on other podcasts like this and talk about it. And it really, really feels good. It was fucking terrifying at the start, but now I've done it so much, I feel really good about it. And the thing that I've noticed as well, is that there's definitely a spectrum of "sex addict", air quotes. And I think a lot of people touch this without realising. And a lot of people have unhealthy relationships with sex without realising, which is why I really want to talk about it. Because, definitely in my friends anyway, from me talking about it in my friendship circle, three or four people have been like, oh yeah, shit, I think that way too. And they've worked on it, and they've come out way happier and healthier afterwards. So I think compulsive sexual behaviour disorder is something that a lot of us touch on without realising. And the example I use is, if you go out for the night, to a club, or wherever.. I say this, like someone who's ever been to a club, look at me, I've never been! I'm into a gig, not a club! You get all done up, you get dressed up. You look good. All your friends look good. You smell nice. You go out, you have fun with your friends, it's great night, some of your friends pull, you don't. And then when you're leaving, what's the feeling in your stomach? because I know people that will feel like the night is wasted, because they haven't pulled or because they haven't gotten laid and someone isn't appreciating how good they look. And I know other people that are perfectly content with that, and they go home, and they've had a great night with their friends. And they sleep for eight hours, and they feel incredible. And I just think that is is a good example- No, you're probably not a sex addict, but you might be pursuing sex or affection for maybe the wrong reasons, you know, to feel good about yourself, to validate yourself. So that's an example I like to use, because I think a lot of people may experience that, who would never class themselves as a sex addict.

Damian Weatherald: 23:51

That makes so much sense because I remember in my late teens, early twenties, going to nightclubs and most of the lads were going out there to pull, get laid. And they set their night on it. And I think if we as a male, the male perspective is completely different as well. And I think that's maybe how, again, back to the sex education thing, how young men view women, view sex. And again, it goes back to the education side.

Jamie Finch: 24:28

Yeah, I totally agree. I think even just on the education thing, even just to the point where they used to split up boys and girls in sex education, they probably still do I don't actually know, because I guess they teach the girls stuff about periods and they teach you guys stuff about condoms. That's a strange concept to me. I think we should all be learning about each other. You know, I'm not a teacher, so I don't know how like the youth of today want to learn - I guess if you had the boys then learning about periods they'd giggle and make the girls feel bad, so I get that. But I just think, like you say, it all stems from education and societal stuff as well, you know. We're sort of taught that girls should be locked away and kept away from people sons, and boys should go out and pursue girls and they should go and chase girls. I just think there's a few things there that like, we should maybe address because it's attaching value to something that isn't well, I was gonna say isn't that valuable, but isn't the be all and end all you know. Flirting and having sex is fun, don't get me wrong, going out to a club and pulling and having a one night stand is really fun. That's cool. But what are you getting out of it? Are you doing it for fun? Does it make you feel good, because in small doses, that's okay. But do you feel like you need it to be worth something, that's when it's a problem. And like groups of lads, you mentioned, like groups of guys, when they all go out, and they're all looking for girls, I don't know that always makes me feel a bit nervous. I always feel a bit uneasy. I had a weekend away recently with a bunch of guys. There was a bit of that going on, you know, so let's go here and try and pull some girls and it just makes me feel really uncomfortable. Because I'm just like, ah, we can have fun. And if you meet girls, that's great. Let's do that. But I don't want it to be like the objective.

Damian Weatherald: 26:05

Yeah, it can come across in the wrong way can't it. And, going back to what you said about periods and splitting classes in schools, I don't see why boys don't learn about periods as well.

Jamie Finch: 26:18

Yeah, right. I had to learn it all through girlfriends, later on in life and asked me stupid questions. And I'm really good at asking stupid questions. I love a stupid question. I bet there's a load of guys my age who don't know anything about periods. Because it's an awkward thing to talk about. People get grossed out by it, which is okay.

Damian Weatherald: 26:38

For the listeners who don't know, I'm 41

Jamie Finch: 26:44

Doesn't look a day over 25 though.

Damian Weatherald: 26:45

I'll take that as a compliment. But yeah, I have friends my age who don't know about periods and things. It's crazy. You know, they have daughters, and they don't know how to talk about these things.

Jamie Finch: 26:57

Well, it's not an easy thing to talk about. let's face it, and that's okay. You know, admitting that you're scared of it is okay. Admitting that you're grossed out by periods is okay. But I think just the more you learn about something, the less scary it is, you know.

Damian Weatherald: 27:10

So I think the next thing we'll talk about is back to the sex toys. One of the brands I know you work with quite well is the Handy. Massive, brilliant toy. I am reviewing it shortly which will go on the Hub for our listeners. So what were your thoughts on that sort of product when you first saw it?

Jamie Finch: 27:31

So, the Handy is basically a robot hand job, right? They don't like me saying that. They keep telling me off when I say that, I should come up with a new way of saying it. But it's basically it's an automatic handjob machine, right. So when I first got it, I was like, this is weird. Like, this is really strange. And it still makes like a little noise as well. It feels very artificial. And when you first put it on, you're like, errr I don't know about this, it feels really weird. And the first time you use it, is awful. But that is what I think the same for every sex toy. Every sex I've ever used, I've hated the first 1 to 3 times. You have to get used to it. So then I then I started getting used to it, and I started looking into the scripting stuff. So you can you can hook it up to porn videos. And it will follow the actions in the video. And then follow along. And that was amazing. Because it was the most realistic simulation of sex I've ever experienced. And now I'm looking into VR with them, which I was chatting to you about. So yeah, you can hook up to VR. And so I guess you can watch the person move while the Handle.. I don't know, I haven't tried it yet. But I think it's gonna blow my mind. And I think you'll never see me again. I'll just get lost. I'll just drop off the face of planet I'll just be in my room in virtual reality. So yeah, that's the Handy, I guess.

Damian Weatherald: 28:55

Yeah, I think my big thing where sex toys are concerned, especially for men, is it can be the only way that some people can masturbate, depending on their disability. And, for me, for example, I have problems with dexterity. I struggle gripping. So something like the Handy should be ideal for me. I've tried other products, so you've got to try these things. And I have spoken to people in the Love Lounge who have asked us questions about this and the Handy is a product that I've recommended for people to try and they tried it and said it's brilliant. I need to try it myself. We'll see where it goes.

Jamie Finch: 29:33

Yeah, amazing. They're so good with it. I love the guys over there. And we're actually working on videos, like I said, for VR, we're working on a video specifically about the Handy with disabilities and all of the community designed grips that they have. So they have things that like clip on the tables, clip onto the wall, chest harnesses which hold the Handy in place. So I'm really looking forward to getting into that and chatting to all kinds of people, that that might benefit and really seeing how much of a difference it makes. But yeah, I'm super excited for that, I've been wanting to do for a long time. It got confirmed 10 minutes before I started chatting to you. How weird is that? Me and you have been trying to make this happen for months, I've been trying to make the VR videos happen for months, and then on the same day, they come together.

Damian Weatherald: 30:18

Everything happens for a reason. Big believer.

Jamie Finch: 30:21

There you go. So, I'm really excited for that. I'm really excited to talk to people from all walks of life about the struggles they have using sex toys conventionally, and how this is going to help. It's gonna be good.

Damian Weatherald: 30:32

So, to finish off, what is coming up soon in your world?

Jamie Finch: 30:38

So we have the 50th episode of the podcast coming out this week, which is very exciting and terrifying. So that's happening. Anyone is interested in anything I've said, or just general like stories about sex world, sex workers, funny sex stories, anything like that - Check out Let's Talk About Sex Jamie, the podcast, and we're launching a YouTube channel. This is the first time I've said it out loud. We're launching a YouTube channel. Yeah, so that's gonna launch with a bunch of videos, actually about the Handy. The first five videos are all about the Handy and men's sexual health and stuff like that. So check that out.

Damian Weatherald: 31:14

Well I certainly will be and I will be telling a lot of my mates to have a look as well. Let's educate all these young men in a positive way. And old men - I think we can all learn! Once again, Jamie, thank you so much for coming on. It's been an absolute dream talking to you and let us hopefully do more stuff in the future.

Jamie Finch: 31:38

Oh, this is the first of many things. Yeah, definitely. Thank you so much. Cheers.

Jennie Williams: 31:43

Thank you so much for listening. If you'd like any more information about the work we do under the Undressing Disability campaign, then go on to our website at www.enhancetheuk.org and click on the Undressing Disability tab.