Podcast 7: CBD Oil with Roisin Delaney and Larry Cavill

We hear from Roisin Delaney from Cannavist magazine and Larry Cavill from Medelicious in this podcast. 

Have you wondered how CBD may benefit you? 
Do you have certain fears and misconceptions around it? 

This very informative podcast will arm you with lots of facts to allow you to consider your options. There are some very useful signposts too, plus debunking some myths about cannabis and its components.

Take a listen - we hope you may discover some new information about cannabinoids.  And who knows, it may set you on a journey of research for your own condition and help you in the long run..

Visit, or sign up to, our free Enhance The UK Undressing Disability Hub where you will soon find a resource with all the pointers from this podcast.

You can also find us on social media. On Instagram we're @UndressingDisability and on Twitter @ETUKUndressing . Search #UndressingDisability 

Transcript

Audio recording: 0:09

Welcome to Enhance the UK's Undressing Disability Podcast, where we strip back all things taboo on sex and disability.

Jennie Williams: 0:19

Hello, my name is Jennie Williams and welcome to the Undressing Disability podcast. I am hosting today along with my co host.

Damian Weatherald: 0:28

Hi I'm Daiman, I'm today's host and we will be talking about CBD oil.

Jennie Williams: 0:32

So the two lovely guests that we've got here are Roisin Delaney, and Larry Cavill. So before we start going into more depth into this conversation about CBD oil, could you both introduce yourselves for us please and just give a little bit of a background. So I feel ladies first on this occasion.

Roisin Delaney: 0:56

Hi, I'm Roisin Delaney and I am the editor of the Cannavist magazine. And the Cannavist magazine is something we started kind of at the back end of 2018 when CBD was first coming into the UK, if you like, and we brought out our first issue in January 2019. And it's just gone from there and the interest around CBD and medical cannabis use in the UK has really really evolved in such a short space of time. It affects so many people's lives now. And that's what we document basically.

Jennie Williams: 1:34

Fantastic. I look forward to hearing more about that. And the lovely Larry Cavill.

Larry Cavill: 1:41

Hi there. I'm Larry Cavill. Thanks, Jenny from Medelicious, and we make CBD candies. So artisan handmade candies. I'll tell you a little bit about the products as we go on if you've got any questions on that sort of thing, but yeah, we do functional candies. Nice tasting using organic CBD. So yeah, that's what I do.

Jennie Williams: 2:04

So, Damien, I know that you got a few questions that you you want to ask. We're both coming from a very rookie angle here. But Damian, I'll let you you kick off with the first question that you've got about CBD oil.

Damian Weatherald: 2:19

Yeah, the first question I've got is, if you can give us a summary about why people should use it because my angle is I've been diagnosed with Ehlers danlos Syndrome since I was 14. So that's over like 20 years ago, and over the years, I've been given lots of different opioids, different painkillers. And most of them haven't agreed with me one way or another. A couple years ago, went to a pain clinic and they asked me to come off everything and at the moment, I'm literally on the basics like paracetamol, ibuprofen, but it has been suggested about trying medicinal cannabis, or CBD oil. And I'm just intrigued to know, from your perspective, what would be the advantages?

Roisin Delaney: 3:01

Yeah, I can start on that one, if you like. And it's really good question that we actually get a lot and as a magazine, we're not really allowed to give medical advice, obviously, but we can certainly talk about the stories that we've encountered and the other people that we've encountered and the clinicians and experts who contribute to us on an editorial basis and what their advice is. Certainly, your particular condition is certainly one of the more kind of common ones that you know, patients are starting to kind of explore the area of CBD medical cannabis now. And I think just going really basic on it is, we all have something called an endocannabinoid system, which is like a chain of receptors throughout our bodies, we've got a build up of receptors near various different points in our bodies, especially the brain, the reproductive system, at various different points near organs throughout the whole body. And CBD and other cannabinoids, which you'll find in your kind of medical cannabis oils, I suppose, will basically help to work with that endocannabinoid system to essentially press reset on your body and help your body find a natural kind of homeostasis, which is the correct kind of level that everything should be working at, your optimum kind of balance internally at your natural state. And I think that's something that no matter what you do in life, or how healthy you are, what what you have going on personally, is kind of essential to all of us, especially at the moment. So that's a kind of very ground level as to how it works within the body. And I think you know, Larry can probably talk about that as well.

Larry Cavill: 4:50

Absolutely. Thank you. Yeah, I mean, there's not much I can add to that really, it's the endocannabinoid system that we have inside us and and exactly that, CBD is part of the cannabinoids within cannabis that's very useful. The main useful thing for it is that it's non psychoactive. So people can go around their daily life they can use it at any point and not worry about any adverse effects in that sense which of course the opiates can give you adverse effects they can make you feel drowsy, there's a whole list of effects of opiates. And yeah, CBD is this there's two cannabinoids, basically, which are the main ones that I'm aware of that CBD and THC, obviously THC is illegal at the minute to a certain degree. I can talk about that further, because there are actually some medicinal cannabis outlets, which is legal to get, and you can Google that at the minutes. So there are conditions you can get that legally at the minute, but it's not mainstream. So they're the two main things that we're talking about is the CBD and the THC. But obviously THC is not legal at the minute, so we can't really discuss that too much. But the CBD, like I say non psychoactive. Everyone can use it, it helps out for a long list of things from joint pain, anxiousness, etc, etc. So yeah, from our point of view, we're making a CBD product that people can enjoy. Because we've just found a few of the oils which are great in themselves, they can be about, I think the word is earthy, it's you know, they try and hide it with terpenes and lemon and stuff like that, but it's quite difficult to do so we can pop that into something that's a bit tastier for people to enjoy as a functional candy, then that's that's our aim to do.

Roisin Delaney: 6:38

I think that's really interesting that you do candies as well, because the role of the endocannabinoid system is only really starting to be known now in medical circles, especially, if you talk to someone who qualified as a doctor in the past kind of 10 15 years or even less, they didn't hear anything about this chain of kind of events that happens within the body, because of the stigma around cannabis, and because of prohibition and all that kind of stuff. So it's only really now that kind of people who have a lot of clinical research behind them, and have a more kind of conventional modern approach to medicine and have started to look at things like more holistic approaches, and not just do traditional prescriptive medicines, I think they're really interesting kind of areas that we're seeing. These very highly qualified clinicians actually looking at cannabis as a medicine now. And while CBD itself is not really recognised; the products that you see in your Holland & Barrett's, for example, are not medical products. They're a supplement just like your vitamins, and multivitamins, and all of that. But the medical CBD that you're seeing that, like Larry talked about within medical cannabis, is a really high grade pharmaceutical product, which is made to the same standards as any other medicine that you're going to be able to get on a prescription. And you're looking at things like pain, appetite, fertility, mood, memory, and inflammation being the big one that it can really help with.

Jennie Williams: 8:12

I need it. I need all of it. All of those things. I'm going to tick that that list off. I mean, can I just say why we are speaking, Damien is that back with a dislocated ankle? He tried to dislocate back himself in the bath last night, and it didn't work, if that was to go through you. So if anyone needs any pain relief right now, Damian it's you!

Damian Weatherald: 8:34

Yeah, yeah, definitely. And it's good. Like, what Roisin was saying there about, like the medical side, where the older doctors are still really against things like that. But the younger generation of physios and other health providers a more like leaning towards to tell you to try it. I've had two different physios in the last three months from the pain clinic, one was so anti CBD oil, who was the older one, where the younger one was like, give it a try. You never know, the only things we want to discuss is the fact that it's not regulated, and how do you know you're getting a decent product.

Roisin Delaney: 9:14

So I think that's a really interesting area right now, from my point of view, like being in the community. It's quite, it's a tricky one to navigate. And but there's definitely some things that you can do as a customer, and as a researcher, kind of a consumer doing your own research to find a really good product for you. And so at the minute, there's a process called the novel food application. And that's where basically companies like Larry's who make a product that's infused with CBD have to go through a regulation process. And that's currently ongoing. The deadline for for companies to get their applications into the Food Standards Agency is actually the end of this month. So you've got loads of companies that the Moment rushing to get their applications in, in order to be compliant to CBD manufacturers in the UK. So from the first of April, we will actually officially have the first ever regulated CBD products in the UK. And that regulation will apply to anything that's consumable. So food items, beverage items, and the oils that you use, that you take orally, will officially be regulated. So if someone doesn't have an application that's been submitted to the Food Standards Agency, by the 31st of March, they won't have a legal product on sale on the first of April, and their product faces action from Trading Standards and being removed from sale and all that kind of stuff. So that's one really good thing that's happening in the UK at the minute. And it's also happening in the EU. But that's a slightly more kind of drawn out process. We're seeing it happen a little bit faster here at the minute which which might be a positive effect from Brexit and all of that. But that's a different story for another day. But the other things that you can look for are, you know, checking the ingredients. So this sounds really, really obvious. And we probably do this, you know, subconsciously on pretty much anything new that we pick up in the in the supermarket, right. But if you just turn the product around and check that it has CBD in the ingredients list, it will either say cannabidiol, or the letters CBD. And it really needs to state that because a lot of people will say hemp extract, and that's technically correct. CBD is extracted from hemp, but to be 100% kind of consumer confident, I would say always check the product says thats on the ingredients on the label. And you're also going to want to look for things like, you know, on the brand's website, do they show a cannabinoid profile of what exactly is in the product, such as like your certificate - basically, it's called a CRA. And it basically just shows a breakdown of how much CBD there is per container. And it should also show things like no detected THC, or the other kind of controlled substances that can come from cannabis, they should be on there as non detectable. So there is a few things that you can do, you just need to be a bit savvy about it to make sure you're finding the right product. And the other thing I would say is we have worked with a couple of different and encountered with a couple of different retailers such as Holland & Barrett, Boots, colt beauty, the hop group, a couple of different like kind of, I suppose distributors or retailers who've really taken to CBD in the past 12 to 18 months. And they do their due diligence, they really do their due diligence when they're considering taking on a brand. So I would look to kind of mainstream retailers as well as see who they're stocking and see, you know how their kind of approach to CBD is a little bit different to going online maybe to a health store kind of website that you've never heard of before. So I would I would go to a trusted source as step one, and then know what you're looking for in the ingredients as step two, and o a little bit of your due diligence on the brand website would be step three.

Jennie Williams: 13:29

So interesting, isn't it? It's just, I think this is the thing, it's very overwhelming for somebody who's just starting off on their journey. And for somebody like me, who has never taken any kind of recreational drugs in my life. I've just had, you know, the odd rum or two, you know, and, you do feel, as Damien said, there's a lot of old school opinions on this. And when you've got a health condition, particularly, you're frightened of exacerbating anything, you know, making anything worse. And then when you start to read and go on forums, there's just so many conflicting, you know, bits of information out there and stories. What are some of the most common myths and misconceptions that you guys regularly hear about CBD oil?

Larry Cavill: 14:26

For sure. I mean, it's all kind of demonised. Really, the whole cannabis thing is put into the drugs category. And as soon as you put it into that, everyone's scared by it. It's misinformation. That's what I think it's misinformation. Now the information is coming out. People can see about it. You know, you've got people in their sort of 60s and 70s getting candies from Molly's pantry down the road in Bletchley, and they're our biggest clients down there rather than people, say, the younger kind of smokers, sort of thing. So that's really good. Whereas even a couple of months ago, they'd be it's cannabis so wouldn't go anywhere near it because they'd been fed all this information in the past that drugs are bad. I think from a point of view, they can consume it, eat it rather than smoking it as well. That makes it a totally different world. totally different world. Medicinally in America. THC is legal and in a lot of states out there and has been for a long time, but the edible market for the over 55's in America. It's absolutely massive. So yeah, I think it's accessibility to it. And information. People have been possibly a bit misled in the past with informarion that's been demonised. So people are getting the information out there. They're talking about it. There's been Ministers, there's a guy called Professor Nutt, as well in the UK, who came out and said, You know, this does have medicinal use,

Jennie Williams: 15:54

Is that his real name?

Roisin Delaney: 15:56

Yeah Professor David Nutt.

Larry Cavill: 15:59

He's a lovely chap. He's before the movie and everything, isn't he?

Roisin Delaney: 16:08

Yeah he's fantastic. We actually work with him on and off on some kind of editorial contributions for the magazine. He's been interviewed and written a couple of things for us in the past. And he founded an organisation called drug science, which I really recommend that you will kind of get on Google and look up. Drug science, he's got a vast kind of history in looking at cannabis and studying cannabis and researching cannabis. At the meantime, he's worked all over the world, in America on kind of neuro clinical data to do with the brain. He also leads a very unique kind of group at Imperial College London. So he is, you know, very involved in the kind of community I suppose of looking at new methods and new solutions to problems that affect millions of people around the world. And one of the things he's looking at is CBD, Cannabis, and THC individually. And collectively. He's also looking at things like psychedelics, such as Psilocybin which is your mushrooms, and ketamine and all these kinds of things that are up and coming in the clinical rounds as well. Be good to keep an eye on, so absolutely check out Drug Sciences. It's an independent organisation that he's founded, which is all about the research. That's really interesting. But going back to the misconceptions, I think the most alarming one that I hear sometimes is will CBD get me high? No, it won't. The term psychoactive is is a bit tricky. It is psychoactive to the point where we know it crosses the threshold to the brain, because we have Endocannabinoid receptors in the brain. Okay, so we know that it gets to those because it affects things like mood and memory. And that's why it can be fundamental in helping people with sleep and mental health disorders, anxiety, that kind of stuff. So we know what works the receptors in the brain. So to some extent, it is mildly kind of psychoactive, but I suppose it's not mind altering, and it's not going to intoxicate you in the way that something like a trip would or a high would, from something like a psychedelic or THC. So that's, that's the main difference. I think it's like taking something that's more of a remedy than something that you're actually going to feel an effect on. A lot of people say, you know, oh, I tried CBD once and I didn't feel anything - you're not supposed to. It doesn't work like that. It's not the same as taking a paracetamol and, you know, 15-20 minutes later starting to feel like oh, I don't have that pain anymore. It doesn't work like that. It's not a pain blocker, which is something that one of our contributors, who's a clinical neuroscientist, Dr. Elizabeth Phillips, I really recommend you look her up especially. She's based in Northampton. And she is incredibly knowledgeable on all of these kind of areas. And she offers a consultancy, and she's got a fantastic information and knowledge base. But something that she often talks about is how it works. It's not working as a painkiller. That's not what it is. It's a lifestyle, holistic remedy that works on the actual problem, which is often inflammation. Which actually then when you calm that over time, you may feel less pain. And that's I think, something that kind of helps it to become more of a pain management solution rather than like a pain blocker because it's not blocking that pain signal. It's actually working within the body as a whole trying to do what I was saying about homeostasis, press reset and just kind of balance things and get things to calm down a little bit internally. So I think they're the main things; how it works and why it works. And that it's not going to get you high, is the main thing.

Jennie Williams: 20:17

That's really interesting, because actually, I didn't appreciate that, you know, I very much thought it was something that you take, and then after a short amount of time, you're meant to have seen a difference in pain. So that's really interesting to know. So generally speaking, are people encouraged to take everyday over a long period of time? And they recommended after how long you're meant to see some difference? Or is it just depending on the individual?

Roisin Delaney: 20:49

So a lot of the advice, Larry could probably talk about this as well from the edibles point of view and how they work compared to taking an oil. But a lot of the advice froma lot of the clinicians out there who have taken to prescribing cannabis oil, just as one example, and say, it's some people that can work depends on what you're taking, it can work very fast, I should say, depends on what your circumstances are. For example, I know people who rely on CBD for helping them get to sleep. And I know people who've tried CBD to help with their sleep and it didn't work. You know what I mean? It's incredibly individual. And it depends on things as well, like how much should you take, for example, there's no recommended daily dosage information from the MHRA, because they don't see it as a medicine, or a supplement. So if you, for example, get a multivitamin, and you turn it around, it'll tell you how much you should take or should you take one capsule or two capsules or do not exceed a certain amount. With CBD, they haven't gotten to that point yet. So you kind of need to trial and error and see what works for you. But I always tell people, when if I have friends or family who asked me about it, because everyone's so curious, I usually say to people, think about what you want to get out of it. And then keep a little journal, almost like you keep a food diary. Or if you're on a lot of medication, a lot of people keep a little medication notebook, to keep track of what they're taking and what time they're taking it at and see how their body reacts to changes and that kind of stuff. I would just keep a little little notepad to talk about what brands you took, how much CBD was in it, what time you took it? And maybe two weeks later, see, okay, have I noticed any kind of difference. And if you haven't, then maybe you need to look at the kind of product you're taking, first of all. And you know, second of all the time of day, you've taken it at. So whether you've not eaten yet or whether you're taking at the end of the day, there's loads of different things you need to just look at your own lifestyle and see what fits around you. Tinctures work excellent for some people, edibles, like Larry's products will, will work really, really exceptionally well for a lot of other people as well.

Damian Weatherald: 23:05

Do you think you've got to have an open mind when you start in this journey?

Roisin Delaney: 23:09

Absolutely. You can't, you won't succeed with CBD, unless you give it a fair shot, you really won't. If you're thinking about it as a prohibited product, or a product that's like you know, the bad child out of the plant family, or the poor relative or something like that you're not, if you think about it from a negative mindset of it being cannabis and that's bad, and it's not allowed. I don't think you're giving it a fair shot. If you think of it in the same respect that you think of a supplement that you get in your pharmacy or, Holland and Barrett or anything else. I think just keep an open mind, give it a fair shot, and you've nothing to lose, it's not going to cause you any harm. And you're not going to have any negative side effects from it, it's not going to cause you any harm. Because you shouldn't, especially when you're starting off, you shouldn't be taking very large doses of it. You should be starting really, really low, and building it up accordingly. Especially if you're on medication. And if you are on medication, I wouldn't even start taking it without consulting your doctor in the first place. That can be a bit tricky, because some doctors we know are really open to it and some aren't. At the end of the day, if you want to take it, you're still going to take it, but I would say start very, very low in terms of how much you're taking. And, you know, you could start at under 10 milligrammes a day and build it up accordingly. If that works for you, but it really is trial and error, but the most important thing is you keep an open mind and you stick with it,

Damian Weatherald: 24:41

if you've got it in your system is illegal to drive.

Larry Cavill: 24:45

I have to Google that one. Basically, from what I've read on Google is that the legality is it needs to be below 0.2 THC Anything above that is not illegal CBD products. So as long as your product is below that, then the CBD is no problem having it in the system, you've got nothing to worry about.

Roisin Delaney: 25:11

Yeah, that it's kind of, yeah, that's right. To a certain extent it gets a little bit more complicated. So the actual, and this is what a lot of people in the community get confused about because the kind of communication from the powers that be at the Home Office, haven't really put effective clarification on this. But if you actually read into the guidelines from the home office, and the thing about the THC rule is the 0.2% rule is actually referring to the plant at the time that it was harvested, the actual hemp plant, that doesn't necessarily translate into the amount of THC in the finished product. The actual law says, You can't have a trace amount of THC, in a CBD product that's on sale in the UK. And they constitute anything, anything above one milligramme as being a trace element of THC. So currently, there's probably a lot of products out there that aren't compliant with that rule. And I think that's something that the Home Office is 100% going to crack down on, in the next couple of years. But that's a rule of thumb on the THC. But Larry is 100%, right, as long as you're taking a compliant product with the THC rule, there shouldn't be any problem,

Larry Cavill: 26:33

it comes down to the extract that they use as well. So the isolate will have zero THC in. And that's if you want to be super careful. And then there's the whole plant one, there's cold press CBD as well, which is hard to find the levels of CBD in so it would be like, you know, our tins are 100 milligrammes in of CBD. But I've seen a lot of products online, that are cold pressed hemp products that don't even have a milligramme of the CBD in there. So I guess that goes back to really sort of checking out who you're buying the products off. The certificate thing is brilliant, because you really have to have that if you're going to be buying it to see exactly what's in it. But I found it quite scary looking on big websites, I won't mention the name of that you can buy lots of stuff on with the amount of products, CBD products out there that are really kind of the lack of information on there. But that's where I think this regulation thing is brilliant. That's what we want. That's what everyone wants, a regulated system that's been proved in America now, we're not talking about Amsterdam coffee shops in the 70s or anything like this, we're talking about a full regulated system where every product is tested before it hits the shops. It's a civilised regulated system that I think is on its way over here.

Roisin Delaney: 27:52

it's definitely becoming more civilised. And I think that's down to people like, even Enhance the UK and organisations such as yourselves and patient led groups, essentially, who are doing the due diligence before talking about it, you know, in an official concept, or an official kind of way, I think, one of the other kind of misconceptions that we were talking about earlier with with CBD in the UK is around flower. And you will often hear of people selling on certain websites, CBD flower or hemp flower, but it's actually an illegal product in the UK that will get you the same charge and offence under the law as selling cannabis. And so that's a big problem at the minute in the UK where people are interpreting the law to a certain extent to suit themselves I guess you would say but that's one misconception is a lot of people think oh it's CBD flower. It's not whole plant. It's not marijuana. It comes from hemp. But again the Home Office legislation says that you cannot process CBD flower in the UK. You cannot sell CBD flower in the UK.

Jennie Williams: 29:10

Are you tqlking about flour as in making a cake?

Roisin Delaney: 29:13

No, no, you're talking about the flower of a plant you're talking about you know,

Jennie Williams: 29:18

right okay about the growing flower yeah, I thought you could actually buy flour to make a cake for me. See what a rookie I am, I did try and warn you. I have no knowledge of this whatsoever.

Roisin Delaney: 29:31

A lot of people are the same. A lot of people would think the same. And a lot of people I often see in forums flower spelled FLOUR, and that kind of tells me as well that the education still has a long way to go. We have people who contact us wanting to advertise their flower in the magazine and we have to say I'm really sorry, but we've been told that's not a legal product and the legislation says that that's not a legal product and we can't do that. But if anyone's really confused on that we do have a really good blog post that someone's done for us on our website, which explains it all. Because a lot of people say, oh, but my flower contains less than 0.2% THC. That doesn't matter. It's still flower. And that's the problem.

Larry Cavill: 30:15

That's been a big grey area. Well, it's no grey area. I think it's misinformation for people. Like you say, CBD, anything CBD and they're all coming out. And a lot of people have gone into a lot of trouble over that.

Roisin Delaney: 30:28

yeah. So when you when you hear those stories about CBD shops being raided, for example, that's why often, not all the time but I would say in the majority of cases, it's down to flower. And you know, the flower is incredibly potent, it has so much CBD in there. And it'll have other cannabinoids and terpenes in there. And antioxidants, like your flavonoids, which together create something called the entourage effect, which is like a coined term by these researchers who, back in the day when when CBD wasn't really heard of outside of a very small research pool, they discovered that how effective CBD was can be dependent on the other things that come from the plant, and they all kind of work together to boost each other's effect. So it's kind of like, an entourage is a group of people who get on really well together and lift each other up. Basically, it's the same thing in terms of the of the compounds in the plant. So you will see claims made about, you know, a full spectrum product, a broad spectrum product versus an isolate product. An isolate product is isolated CBD is very pure CBD, if you were to look at it, it looks like fresh snow on the ground, is what I would describe it as. A broad spectrum product is your CBD with a couple of other compounds in there, and maybe a couple of terpenes kind of like the cousins of CBD if you like, and then full spectrum is the whole extended family, it has everything in it, and it has some THC in it as well. So in America, in particular, there's a massive full spectrum market, not so much here. But as Larry said previously THC is legal in some places in the States now, and it's its own market in itself. So you'll really see popular kind of full spectrum products over there, which have absolutely everything. It's like a whole plant extract basically.

Jennie Williams: 32:24

Fascinating, isn't it? It's just like, so there's so much to this. And so, I mean, we're gonna have to wrap this up soon, because I think people are going to be so overwhelmed by this information. And we'll give out your your email addresses and contact details at the end of the podcast if that's okay, as I'm sure we're gonna have people getting in touch with you. I mean, I've got two main questions, really. The first one is that, obviously, we can't be giving medical advice, as you said, and people should be talking to their doctor. So as a disclaimer, we're absolutely not giving any medical advice here. But are there any kind of big no no's when it comes to medical conditions, where people just really should not even be trying this, that you guys know of? Or is a well known fact within your world?

Larry Cavill: 33:19

Without being properly qualified on it, it's difficult to say, you know, I mean, there are the obvious ones, that people talk about any psychotic episodes on that. It's really difficult to say, because I'm not a doctor, but that's what I hear through the grapevine, you know, we may have some mental issues or something like that, then it could amplify those. But this is the same with a lot of things. I've seen a lot of people drink alcohol, and have episodes on alcohol as well. So it is difficult. I would say it's an age thing, I think in America is 21. And I think from that point of view, you don't want teenagers smoking it until they're fully developed, that's my main thing, you know, until they're a certain age where they're fully developed, and they understand and then they can enjoy these things. From a THC point of view that is really.

Roisin Delaney: 34:16

I'd agree. I think I think that the subject of psychosis is really interesting. And before we finish up at the very end, I'll give you the names of a few doctors that I think people should check out on Instagram and stuff like that, because they're really, really great sources of information. And really approachable too about it. They're happy, they do these kind of things all the time, and they're really happy to further the education and the messaging around it because they didn't have that information when they were coming up in their training. I think with regards to the way it is in the UK at the minute, it's kind of broken down into into three really main areas at the minute The first one is CBD as a standalone product as a supplement that we take, you know, just like we take our vitamin D at the minute because that's apparently really great against COVID, and all these kind of different things that we're being told by that industry. And I think that's one side of it, that's your kind of lifestyle supplements that you can just take, you know, as and when you want. And then there's the the medical side, which I think is really interesting. And I think it probably applies to more people than people even realise. So in the UK alone, in 2019, there were at least 1.4 million people who were eligible for a medical cannabis prescription, at least, and that was two years ago. So I would bet my house on it, that that's at least doubled since that time, because of the information that's going out there now. And because of people's awareness of medical cannabis, it's been legal now for just over three years in the UK - coming up on three years, actually, it was November 2018, when it was legalised. So I think that's probably giving people a bit more confidence to talk to their doctors about it, and to do a bit of their own research on it and see, oh, I might be eligible for this. The issue with the medical side is, we have a two tiered system there, it is very, very difficult to get a prescription for medical cannabis through the NHS. Why? Because first of all, it's a very new product, there's not a lot of clinical data around it, there is some, and there's actually clinical data coming out all the time. And you can go onto various different government websites, you know, you can go on to the EU Health kind of ministry platform, and you can see what clinical data is in the pipeline and expected to come out on cannabis. All the information is there, you just need to know where to find it, basically. But the NHS, technically has backed certain products for certain conditions, and one of them being for spasticity related to multiple sclerosis, MS. And there's also a lot of talk and conversation around epidiolex, which is produced in the UK for severe untreatable forms of epilepsy. And then you also have the area of really severe nausea and a destroyed appetite for patients as well. So they're the three areas that the NHS are looking at. But it's virtually impossible to get a prescription on the NHS for medical cannabis at the moment. That's not to say that you can't get a legal prescription in the UK because you can. There's a network of clinics which are privatised clinics run by extremely qualified and well experienced doctors and clinicians. Some of the best doctors in the UK are now involved in these clinics. One such clinic, which I'm not affiliated with them at all, but I'm just telling you the name of them, because I'm really, really rate them. And I like the way that they approach this subject and make it really accessible. They're called Sapphire Medical. And they basically are London based, but they do have a region various different points of the country, you can virtually get a consultation these days with them, because they're doing it all remotely through telemedicine now. And the great thing about it is, and this is what I really, really love, and I hope the NHS does this eventually, because this is where cannabis will kind of take the next step into becoming a mainstream medicine, I think. You can self refer, so you don't even have to go through your GP to actually get a prescription. Now, you're always recommended to talk to your own doctor who you've probably been dealing with for years. But I think it's really just a great positive step that you can literally go onto their website, upload your information, fill out what's called a self assessment form, that will determine how eligible you might be for a prescription. And once you submit that, you can get, if your GP is open to it or your doctor is open to it, a specialist or whoever. If they're open to providing you with a reference letter to say that they believe you might be a good candidate for this or that they believe you have exhausted all of your other options, then you can upload that as well and that furthers your application. But a clinician and the clinical director usually in the practice will then look at that and decide okay, she's tried this, she's tried that. she's exhausted this option, this option and this option. This is something he's been living with for x y Zed number of years, cannabis might actually help and at that point, you'll be invited for a clinical consultancy via the internet. Just like over a zoom call, basically. So I think that's a really fundamental step for the UK, it's not ideal because it is legal to get a prescription for medical cannabis since November 1st 2018. But for whatever reason, due to cost and lack of clinical research, it just hasn't been embraced publicly by the NHS yet. The first initial steps, well intentioned steps, have been made by the Department of Health. But it hasn't taken that next crucial step into becoming a mainstream medicine yet. So for the time being, I would say if anyone is curious about it, go to either our website, which is Cannavistmag.com or go to the Sapphire medical website and log on there and just look at the range of conditions that it's available for. You're talking about physical conditions, mental conditions, and neurodiversity, as well, such as ADHD, and all of these kinds of various different things that it can help with. So have a look. And you've got nothing to lose, is what I would say. The only thing I will say is, it can be quite expensive to go down the private route. So just bear that in mind. But again, it depends on what your needs are. And I know for a fact that if you are someone with something like fibromyalgia, or another chronic pain condition, it can be as little as four or five pounds a day, which I think is it's pretty significant in kind of real money terms, if you like.

Jennie Williams: 41:34

That is so so interesting. I think we're going to wrap this podcast up now, because you have given us so much food for thought. And let's face it, we could probably continue for another hour talking about all this. But what I would really like to say to everybody that's listening, is I'm going to encourage a Roisin and Larry to sign up to our Undressing Disability hub on our website, if you're not already signed up. And it's a little bit like, we call it our sexy little sibling to LinkedIn. So they will have their profiles up there. So anyone that's listening, you can go on to the Hub, fill out your profile, and then you can connect with these guys, ask questions, and they will also share any resources that they have on their companies, on any information on this onto the hub, so you can find out some more information. We want to continue this narrative, you know, we want to keep talking about this and learning because it's really the start of everybody's journey. And certainly for Damien and myself with our conditio s, it's the start of our journe as well, you know, so I am goi g to be asking you a lot of que tions once we finished. They'l probably take up another hour But I just want to say from Damien and myself, thank you so much, you are fountains both of you, of knowled e. It's fascinating having thes conversations. And can you both just say one more time wher people can directly cont ct you?

Roisin Delaney: 43:07

Yeah, um, so you can contact myself Roisin at the cannavist magazine, by emailing editorial@cannavistmag.com you can also get in touch via our website, we've got a form that you can fill out a contact form, and it's monitored on a daily basis. And the website is cannavistmag.com. And you can also get in touch with us directly via our Instagram, which is @cannavistmag. And if anyone would like any more information at all, just get in touch and connect you with people too, which is a great thing. If I'm okay to just name a couple of those doctors that I was talking about, because I think that is a really great way of getting the facts. You know, obviously I know a lot, but I'm not a doctor. And some of these people are incredibly qualified, and have done so much work in this area and so much research. That's fantastic. And so one such doctor is Dr. Dani Gordon. She is UK based. And she is from Canada. And she's got so much experience in this kind of area. Of course, Canada, a legal area for recreational cannabis as well. And they've really embraced that market. So she has a fantastic wealth of knowledge. And she's doing a study at the moment into the kind of effects of long COVID and cannabinoid therapies, which I think is going to be something that's really popular when that comes out. The results of that will be really interesting to look at. Someone else has Dr. Elizabeth Phillips who I already mentioned, Dr. Elizabeth is a really really fantastic, insightful person to just speak to about this. She's an expert in all things cannabinoids, and she's a clinical neuroscientist as well. So she really understands the inner workings of the brain and how that overlaps with things like the gut and Endocannabinoid medicine. And the last thing I would say is if you could look up two organisations, two or three organisations, there are a vast amount of patient advocacy organisations out there now. But one of them which is really impartial and independent and really just great from an advice point of view and it has great consultants on there who work in the NHS as well I should add, would be C-pass or cann pass. I think it's cannpass.org is their organisation website. And they work with patients, nurses, doctors, on broadening the conversation around medical cannabis and CBD and educating practitioners. The other one will be the centre for medicinal cannabis, which is a fantastic organisation that has been the source of the law reform around medical cannabis in the UK. So they do great work. And they've got fantastic people such as you know, NHS doctors who are actually part of their team. And, then the other one will be the Sapphire medical clinic, which I talked about earlier, they're really, really, really great organisation that I think will dominate this kind of area in the future purely because of how accessible they make it and how much information is out there. So yeah, they're definitely the people and the places that I would look if you're looking for more information.

Jennie Williams: 46:18

Fantastic, thank you. And if anyone, you know, some of our listeners are going to be out there, you know, maybe go for a walk, or maybe you're sitting having your chemo or you know, and you can't take notes of everything, all the information that's just been said, Please don't worry. All this information will be written down, we will scribble it all down, put it in a resource and put it up on the hub in the next week or so. It will be there for you. So thank you so much for that, that was absolutely fantastic. And Larry, anything you want to add and your website address?

Larry Cavill: 46:50

Sure yeah no, thank you for having me on. No, it's been great going through the history of it and everything and where we're kind of going with it. It's very exciting and I've been involved in it for over 20 years you know, and I've seen a massive change and swing and and i think this CBD is leading the way, regulating it etc . You can contact me, My email address is Larry@medelicious.kitchen.

Jennie Williams: 47:24

Again we will be putting all of Larry's details up on the Hub. Do not worry it will all be there. Thank you very much everybody and I for one am going to be going away doing researching. I probably won't be researching I'll be really lazy, and I'm going to just be asking you guys all the questions.

Roisin Delaney: 47:40

Thank you for having us.

Damian Weatherald: 47:42

Thanks for listening. For more information or to have a chat with us. Please visit EnhancetheUK.org. From there, you can also sign up to our Undressing Disability hub, a platform for professionals to connect and collaborate in the arena of sex and disability.